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I liked Xantia... I wanted to date her.

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Goth is good, generous, grateful, great.
Tor terrible, traumatic, traitor, truculant.

Think about that... now you know who the real hero is.

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I have to say im enjoying reading Betrayal, its a great book, but i really love Goth, he is so bad and nasty that he really appeals to me. Im glad you didnt kill him off Fiona , he just makes the goodies look even better. mokin">

I know some off you didnt but to have someone so evil must have been so much fun to write.

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The villains are always much more fun. Goth was a riot to work with because he is so unscrupulous - no ethics, no empathy for anyone. He works only for personal ends. That makes him brilliant to write because you can really push the boundaries. I thought I'd gone a bit far in Betrayal with the child but he just gets worse in Revenge. In fact now I think about it he gradually unravelled through the books. It's as if he was sliding into madness whilst still having that horribly sharp brain for cruelty and destruction. His very worst act is in Destiny I might add and I remember when my husband read the draft he said "he can't do this" then said "no, you can't do this! It's too horrible."
I kept it in. It's gruesome but it's also important and gives readers a yearning for his end.

I'm not sure I can ever do a Goth again although a couple of baddies in Myrren can probably shape up!

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Fiona, I have a gut feeling I know which particular Goth deed you're talking about.

Adios

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Goth is pretty blood thirsty. A classic manic villain - brilliantly done. I think it was a master stroke making him a mere mortal. For most of the books it is Goth that makes the heroes folks miserable with the greater evil lurking in the background. IMO this makes the danger "relatable" by the reader.

The impossibly powerful villains aren't as scary - because you can't relate directly to the danger. That's my theory anyway.

<hr><font face="verdana" size="1"><b>Life is a containment field for thought.</b><i> (A Slatz original.)</i></font>

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Ha ha DN...you're a 'slippery' character!

Slatz - that's a damn good point you make. I've never thought about it from that perspective but I think you've nailed it. Goth is a mere mortal but he acts as though he is invincible. His deeds are so cruel and yet as a reader you do relate because he's just a man. No magic, no special qualities other than his driving hate for Tor. Perhaps this is why he resonates so strongly with readers and his creator. I loved playing with him but I despised him and looked forward to him getting his come uppance.

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Well, you're not getting any brownie points from me for the Great Goth Atrocity. How could you? I really liked that woman (even though I only finished Destiny a few days ago and can't even remember her name).

Edited by: Cerhis at: 11/6/02 10:12:54 pm

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Oh look,
a quiz show questionhrug">
I know who you mean, it was whatsername

But I think , Goth was misunderstood, he just came from a broken family, and he was just lashing out and expressing his anger, i mean it wasn't his fault

Edited by: milander at: 11/7/02 3:49:00 am

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Hi

I don't think Goth is evil... today he would be given a social worker, a good pension and several weeks holiday in vanuatu to unwind.

He is misunderstood.

Also look at it form his point of view... His King orders him to do the dirty work of the kingdom... he follows orders to the letter.... is he ever reprmanded by the king for over zealousness? Is he removed from office?

Suddenly this dude from nowhere turns up... and he gets the sack... unemployment looms... no pension scheme... his patron turns against him... what's a sidekick to do... e fights back with the only weapons he has... HIS TRAINING...

He is a victim of his times, of his work and of his King's change of mind.. bugger! Poor Goth.

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*LOL* Yeah well now people are making out like Goth was a victim of his time. Well he isn't he is a BAD guy after all and the readers should be made to believe that he is a evil charicter. So fiona you have done a wonderfull job in doing so. I know by the end of the book I was glad to get rid of him FINALLY..... ">

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Usually, I really love the villans example: Draco Malfoy in Harry Potter and Stephen in the Doorways trilogy, but Goth was just...eew! I mean, he's cool and all and I sort of liked "> him at the start, but after he killed that child with the orange and covered up his mistake by saying that she was sentient, I didn't like him anymore and combine him with Xantia hrug"> ...you get a really gruesome pair. It seems as if they get more and more evil and cunning in every book! Fantastic!

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Have you been reading the witches of Eileanan?

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Yes Draco i have. urple">

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Hehe thought not.

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Nope soldier, you cheeky bugger.

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Isabeau you have dated Xantia?

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I HATED Goth from the moment he came into the books to the moment he died, come to think of it i hate him now....

there was no....oh boo hoo he lost his parents...there is no excuse for his blatent cruelty, he was just born evil...

oapbox"> i often wished to rub his ugly face in the nearest cow patty, kick him a few times and then stoke up the fire...

okay i will go now.....

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breathe Jessica breathe

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I agree, Goth was needed as a reference point (and counter-balance) for how good Tor and the rest of his family and friends were. If Goth had been killed off in book one, Tor would have sat in the Heartwood for most of book two and three twidling his thumbs until Orlac showed up. Not quite how a hero is supposed to behave.

I read somewhere that in all good stories, there is always something that will stop the Hero getting what they want (generally caused by a Villan) right until the end.

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I've been dead for a while now, so far I don't like it...