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A philosophical question to get some discussion going at the BB... Fantasy is getting edgier, darker but how far can we take it? The violence or brutality for instance? Now I tend to write in a medieval setting which suits my sometimes grisly scenes because life was cheap in those times and people did suffer terribly at the hands of the rich and powerful. But it's an interesting notion to ponder that how far is enough before it's a turn off for the reader or you begin to alienate a readership. I'm not necessarily talking about my work but just fantasy tales in general. My take is that is that so long as the characters inflicting the brutality are believable and the story has immense pulling power to drag the reader helplessly and hopefully breathlessly along and that violence never feels contrived or simply a device to shock, then essentially anything goes. What does everyone think? Is there anything confronting you wouldn't want to read in your fantasy?

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From my point of view, as a reader and enjoyer of fantasy.... basically, if it feels good (or even better, bad!) then do it.......  if it fits in with the story and characters then i will be carried along with the writer... if it is put in deliberatily to shock or as a token piece of violence, then it can feel false......

I can forgive an author for damaging a person that i have grown to love as long as it fits..... even if it surprises, as long as I can sit back (after the tears and tantrums) and think, "well yes, that makes sense" - it is fine.  I would rather this than those that go for the safe option and happy ever after ending (when it doesn't fit the rest of the story).

And I agree with the medievil theme....   I am currently reading a modern day, true story.  What is happening to this hero is breaking my heart, but when it comes to fantasy, it is a matter of "bring on the dungeons, torture and maiming".

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Hmmm... the dark and macabre - how far to go...   if my memory serves me well - years ago I  read fantasy works that were all pretty intense and macabre - samurai, medieval dramas, necromancers, warlords etc - death and mayhem and intense reality.

I think I have  become a little desensitised to brutality mainly because we are exposed to so much in real life and now recognise that evil exists and needs to be dealt with - magic and the good guys sometimes do what is not considered pure to succeed.

I am currently reading Robert Newcombs latest and I thought we had already been invited to experience as much dark behaviour as was humanly possible - then he introduces characters whose everyday activities are not only macabre and organically shocking, but blood curdling and bile raising because of the detail.  But - it is part of the story line and fits the character - if they did any less they would be partials not complete.

Its not so much that the drama needs to be heigtened to shock and sell but how else do you say - remove marrow and add to potion required by assassin in a nice way - how can you say in a disinfected way - he filleted the human thigh and fed it to the giant cat.  If the context is already chaotic and life threatening, many are dead and destruction is constant - no easy way of explaining blood lust or battle thrall, death and inhuman behaviour. 

I think the darkness has always been there - perhaps fewer authors used it - social norms and cultural boundaries dictact what is acceptable and most readers follow the safe path.  Today the reader has a plethora of choice and can guage in advance what the content and level of darkness is and then buy what they feel they can accept. There has been only one recent author whose writing generated a major yuk-horror-oh no response - but then I have not read them all. 

As an author you should maintain personal integrity and if your vision contains shades of dark that most find offensive or challenging then that is your story - to thine own self be true.  You cant please everyone all the time... 

Thanks for aking a provocative and stimulating question - I hope your writing proceeds well.  

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Hey folks,

My first post to the forums! Kewl!

I think that writing what you want to write is great advice. Violence and darkness will always be a part of what we write to one extent or another and if it advances the plot then so be it. Of course as one of the other posts mentioned - you can't please all the people all the time. There will always be different styles and these will in turn apeal to different groups of readers. Some groups will be larger while others will be smaller. After all is said and done write what you feel is necessary.

I tend to think that violence, darkness and the macabre are juicey elements in fantasy - they are the stuff of swords, sorcery and the like. They can certainly advance a story or flesh out a character and can help place the reader in the 'zone' you want them in. So I guess that as readers experiement with different authors and styles there may well be an increase in the demand for these elements and so the ebb and flow continues. It may gain popularity now and later it may wane.

For me I like a grand story where great battles and ominous deeds carry characters through all manner of adventures. As long as the good guys win I'm happy to read though violence and darkness but I definately have my limits. Violence just for the sake of it tends to make me put a book down.

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[i]Life was cheap in those times and people did suffer terribly at the hands of the rich and powerful.[/i]

Hey Firth...what's changed ?

Adios imp