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Plausible length of a book
Member
Total Posts: 15
Last Online: 31st Oct 2003 13:49:00
Registered: 15th May 2004 00:00:00
Afternoon, people,
I have mindlessly thrown myself into the task of writing a novel over the last... while... with the intention of setting out as a writer. I forsee no major problems with plot, characters or the like; however, I seem to have dug myself into a 130,000-word-deep hole and face this dilemma:
Which would a publisher be less likely to reject outright from an unpublished author: an incredibly thick but well-written manuscript, or a normal-sized one from an author who insists that a second follow?
I have mindlessly thrown myself into the task of writing a novel over the last... while... with the intention of setting out as a writer. I forsee no major problems with plot, characters or the like; however, I seem to have dug myself into a 130,000-word-deep hole and face this dilemma:
Which would a publisher be less likely to reject outright from an unpublished author: an incredibly thick but well-written manuscript, or a normal-sized one from an author who insists that a second follow?
#2 - 10th Jun 2003 18:32:00
Forum Moderator
Total Posts: 903
Last Online: 1st Jun 2004 21:40:00
Registered: 14th May 2004 00:00:00
Hello Peregrine and let me welcome you here to the Board as I haven't seen any other threads of salutation yet. I'm sure they'll happen!
To answer your question from my experience...a 130,000 book is about normal anyway. A publisher such as HarperCollins would not be looking for anything less particularly as the editing process tends to cull a hefty amount of words.
Buyers like to see a book of around say Betrayal's size on the shelf (130,000) because it looks big enough to offer value for the spend whilst not too big to seem intimidating.
Myrren's Gift which is book one of my new series is about 170,000 words and that's about comfy for me and the publisher is happy with this.
I can tell you now that it's highly unlikely that HarperCollins for example would accept a stand alone fantasy novel from a new writer and a two book option is not as marketable as either the stand alone or trilogy.
Publishers of fantasy tend to look for trilogies and you'll need a synopsis for each book to assure the publisher that the story has staying power and sufficient excitement etc to go the distance of approx half a million words in the trilogy.
Work on three books of around 130,000-150,000 words each and you'll be on the mark.
Good luck. F
To answer your question from my experience...a 130,000 book is about normal anyway. A publisher such as HarperCollins would not be looking for anything less particularly as the editing process tends to cull a hefty amount of words.
Buyers like to see a book of around say Betrayal's size on the shelf (130,000) because it looks big enough to offer value for the spend whilst not too big to seem intimidating.
Myrren's Gift which is book one of my new series is about 170,000 words and that's about comfy for me and the publisher is happy with this.
I can tell you now that it's highly unlikely that HarperCollins for example would accept a stand alone fantasy novel from a new writer and a two book option is not as marketable as either the stand alone or trilogy.
Publishers of fantasy tend to look for trilogies and you'll need a synopsis for each book to assure the publisher that the story has staying power and sufficient excitement etc to go the distance of approx half a million words in the trilogy.
Work on three books of around 130,000-150,000 words each and you'll be on the mark.
Good luck. F
perigrine... welcome to the heartwood.....
Member
Total Posts: 344
Last Online: 5th Nov 2004 15:53:20
Registered: 14th May 2004 00:00:00
Jess: a synopsis is a summary of the actual work. There's also the outline, which in my definition, is more detailed than the synopsis. And to make matters more complicated, there are many levels of details an outline can achieve.
I found that many writers, both published and unpublished, will sometimes mix up the terms, calling outline what should be a synopsis and vice versa. Usually, a publisher will want a brief synopsis of the book, or books if it's a series. The briefer the better.
If you want an example of outlines that led to a sale for many authors, Mike Resnick has published a book titled "I Have This Nifty Idea ...Now What Do I Do With It?", and includes outlines by authors such as Robert Silverberg, David Brin, Katharine Kerr, Terry McGarry and many more. A good tool for one who wants to master the art of outlining.
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I found that many writers, both published and unpublished, will sometimes mix up the terms, calling outline what should be a synopsis and vice versa. Usually, a publisher will want a brief synopsis of the book, or books if it's a series. The briefer the better.
If you want an example of outlines that led to a sale for many authors, Mike Resnick has published a book titled "I Have This Nifty Idea ...Now What Do I Do With It?", and includes outlines by authors such as Robert Silverberg, David Brin, Katharine Kerr, Terry McGarry and many more. A good tool for one who wants to master the art of outlining.
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"> i thought it could be something like that but i wanted to be sure Member
Total Posts: 15
Last Online: 31st Oct 2003 13:49:00
Registered: 15th May 2004 00:00:00
Good point - why are publishers so fond of trilogies? I suppose it's an established formula: set scene, destroy lives of good characters, make good characters win. And I guess it means more book dollars in the pocket, because if a reader likes the first one, he or she will get the next two. Unless he or she goes to a library.
Of course, I will shortly be buying Destiny because my library lacks the knack for buying entire trilogies - only either the first or last book, and usually it's the last one. So cheers, Fiona.
Have I just answered my own question?
Rebel! Write duologies and quadrilogies! Invent new words with Latin roots!
Of course, I will shortly be buying Destiny because my library lacks the knack for buying entire trilogies - only either the first or last book, and usually it's the last one. So cheers, Fiona.
Have I just answered my own question?
Rebel! Write duologies and quadrilogies! Invent new words with Latin roots!
#10 - 16th Jun 2003 14:21:00
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Total Posts: 903
Last Online: 1st Jun 2004 21:40:00
Registered: 14th May 2004 00:00:00
Frankly, I imagine it has everything to do with marketing. More money to the publisher from one story but it works in the favour of the author too - more opportunity to build your profile from one tale, royalties, more books to your name, blah blah.
What perhaps most unpublished writers don't appreciate is that the publishers put an immense amount of effort into launching a new writer. There is a senior editor, a copy editor, often an independent line editor, a publicist, an artist, the web designer, a marketing manager and then a whole troop of sales managers around the country who work in tandem to make a new book a success. If you're a new writer, the effort is tripled as they all put in to get this new name off the ground and the profile built quickly. I now have a team of people holding meetings and basically swinging into action on Myrren's Gift and launching a new fantasy series. That takes a lot of manpower and money to do this. It will be one of the reasons why trilogies help the publisher to maximise the profits from one story.
Fantasy tales lend themselves to the epic scope of a trilogy. Fantasy readers (just scratch the surface and most will admit it) quite enjoy that a great tale doesn't come to and end after one novel. Favourite characters and beloved stories roar on at least for three books. Tolkien started it and the genre has never really let go of the concept.
New writers are not encouraged to write stand alones. It doesn't have enough clout to get you established as a writer of some force.
Duologies are frowned upon - they always seem to feel unfinished, I suspect.
There'll be other reasons but that's a few valid ones to consider.
Re synopsis. Always furnish publisher with a synopsis of the story. It should be no more than a couple of pars. Read back cover blurbs to get a feel for how to do this.
If you are successful, the publisher will come back to you and ask for each novel in the trilogy to be outlined.
F
What perhaps most unpublished writers don't appreciate is that the publishers put an immense amount of effort into launching a new writer. There is a senior editor, a copy editor, often an independent line editor, a publicist, an artist, the web designer, a marketing manager and then a whole troop of sales managers around the country who work in tandem to make a new book a success. If you're a new writer, the effort is tripled as they all put in to get this new name off the ground and the profile built quickly. I now have a team of people holding meetings and basically swinging into action on Myrren's Gift and launching a new fantasy series. That takes a lot of manpower and money to do this. It will be one of the reasons why trilogies help the publisher to maximise the profits from one story.
Fantasy tales lend themselves to the epic scope of a trilogy. Fantasy readers (just scratch the surface and most will admit it) quite enjoy that a great tale doesn't come to and end after one novel. Favourite characters and beloved stories roar on at least for three books. Tolkien started it and the genre has never really let go of the concept.
New writers are not encouraged to write stand alones. It doesn't have enough clout to get you established as a writer of some force.
Duologies are frowned upon - they always seem to feel unfinished, I suspect.
There'll be other reasons but that's a few valid ones to consider.
Re synopsis. Always furnish publisher with a synopsis of the story. It should be no more than a couple of pars. Read back cover blurbs to get a feel for how to do this.
If you are successful, the publisher will come back to you and ask for each novel in the trilogy to be outlined.
F
#11 - 22nd Jun 2003 18:33:00
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Total Posts: 1680
Last Online: 21st Nov 2007 13:21:01
Registered: 14th May 2004 00:00:00
Fantasy is sold in threes these days.. you know 3 pigs, 3 blind mice, 3 stooges... threesomes are popular in fantasy... so go for the triad and yes a decent word count is worht striving for... expect 30% of your wok to be eradicated.. so if you want 130,000 you can expect to write 170,000 words at the start.
Follow Fiona's advice and you won't go far.
Oh and welcome to the heartwood.
Follow Fiona's advice and you won't go far.
Oh and welcome to the heartwood.
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