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Just wondering which word count to use as the official count of my MS... For assessment I would use the computer one because it comes in at around 102000, hence a smaller fee. But for submitting to agents and/or publishers, I'm not sure which to use. The average # of words per page multiplied by # of pages gives me around 110000 words, but another method (supposedly preferred by publishers), where a word is considered six characters (spaces included) gives me 135600, which is what I've heard is a good value for a new author. My issue is that I don't want to tell an agent that the book is 135600 words when they can look at it and maybe know it's not, in all reality. Does anyone (hint hint Fiona) know which to use? Cheers, Lisa.

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Well, I've never come across such a dilemma before. I guess because I only showed my earliest manuscript for Betrayal to an assessor, I only sent in 10 chapters I seem to recall. That's all I'd loosely put together. The mss that the publisher saw was one that was all new. I didn't use an agent for Trinity so there was no issue there. I had a genuine 130,000 words to begin with. These days I don't even think too much on word count for submission because they've already bought the rights to the tale long before I write the thing, so I'm sitting in a different situation to you. Okay - here's my take: Can I suggest that you never try and trick anyone in publishing because it always come back to bite you. It really is wise to just go down the path of honesty, especially with agents and editors. You want them on your side so you achieve nothing by trying to pull the wool over their eyes and really it's quite disrespectful to them if you knowingly offer up a word count that isn't genuine. They're so experienced they'll know by looking at it roughly how it stacks up. Do your computer count and that's your word count as far as my advice would go and that's the one you use for whomever you're showing the work to i.e. assessment service, literary agency or editor in a publishing house. As for the assessment - if you want the whole mss looked at, then you have to bite the bullet and pay what the rate is. Or, if you just want judgement on whether the story has legs, the writing shows promise, the characters are engaging, etc, then send in half and have a chat to the assessor you've chosen before you do this. Explain your situation. They have to live to and they understand that their service is a luxury that aspiring writers are finding a way to afford. You can negotiate perhaps for a whole manuscript. Don't be scared to have a chat to them and feel them out on price. Everyone wants business and will not knock it back for the sake of dollars, unless they're really busy and don't really need any more work backing up. So suss it out. An assessor - if they're good - is going to put in a lot of hard work so that needs to be taken into account but I'm sure a deal can be struck or you can explain precisely what you want him or her to focus on and the sort of things like: is pace brisk enough, is the dialogue convincing, is my writing style the sort of thing publishers are looking for, does this story appeal commercially and so on, they will know within the first few chapters I promise. A top editor will know within the first few pages! Grit your teeth, do the computer word count and stick with that. Sounds to me like you need another 20,000 words for it to stand up strongly as a potentially buyable fantasy for Voyager - they really like books around 130,000 words but that doesn't mean a great story of 100,000 words would be rejected. They may ask you to increase it though. Good luck!

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Lisa at TAFE they taught me that the REAL word count is the average words per line multiplied by the number of pages,,, the MS word count in word counts for JACK. According to Tafe that is.

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I've never heard this formula mentioned by anyone actually published.

Although it's been given serious weight in the struggling author circles... I tend to treat most of the information with a pinch of salt.
Now TAFE?

Perhaps an insight into the days when I had to produce a magazine might help:
When we started there was indeed a formula, but as soon as technology caught up and everything was on the new version of Quark (this was eight years ago now), the formula was not used anymore so it was no longer an issue. Word count was important because they provided proof reading as part of the deal.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like TAFE have a bias towards information from the good old days, but maybe their research is indicative of smaller publishers(?)

I'd rather hear from a publisher or published author before I started concerning myself with formulaic word counts, that's for sure

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Okay, here it is again from a published author and also from the head of acquisitions and senior editor at Voyager at Harper Collins: Don't worry about formulas - that went out as soon as the technology caught up with the needs of anyone producing a document that needed a word count. Do an electronic word count and put that on the front of your manuscript!

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Brilliant news, Fiona! I'm currently in the process of working up a couple of submissions for the pitch at Conjure, so a definitive word on this is truly appreciated. Personally, I never understood all the contention about this amongst my fellow wannabes. As you say, the publishers certainly keep up with technology. Cheers, Lisa.

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Conjure? Tell me more.

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Lisa's referring to this site I believe
http://www.conjure.org.au/pitch.htm

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That's the one, Trent. And if I can get anyone other than myself to like my pitches, I might just make the deadline... Cheers, Lisa.